Homosexuality & the Church - Part 3
There has been a lot of attention around my recent series, starting with the letter from Alex (which, again, is a pseudo-name to protect his identity at his request), going on to explore some tough questions with the intention to learn from each other. I have been very pleased that the conversation has stayed away from petty name calling and hateful arguments. It has been an good start.
However, being the final post in this series, as Alex had the first word on this topic, I felt it was important that he had the last. While he rarely commented, he informs me that he has followed the dialogue closely. His closing words are well worth some serious consideration:
When Jamie & I talked about posting my original letter, I suspected it would stir up some interest. Regardless of what people believe on the issue, they tend to hold those beliefs with a lot conviction. As has been noted, there has been little (to none) of the expected hate or name calling that typically is drawn to this topic like flies on- well, you get the picture.
My hope in writing here was that people would have the chance to explore this issue beyond theory and theology by putting a person out front (albeit anonymously). In Part 2, I think Jamie's intention was to ask questions with me (the person) in front of the issue. I thought Jamie was being naive in this regards, but I see now that he was simply being hopeful. The fact is that the conversation quickly slipped back into the very abstract legalities of doctrine that, while important, leave people such as me feeling like specimens, political soapboxes and philosophical abstractions. Most often the intentions are good, but people too often fail to understand how it feels- how could they?
Can you imagine when people refer to something as intimate as your sexual orientation in the same sentence as child molestation or murder? My orientation may be unnatural, but I experience it to be as real and authentic and natural as anyones heterosexuality, so these kinds of comparisons do NOTHING in bringing to trust a community of faith that claims to have the "answer" to my "sin". People talk about moral certainty, but how do you think you would feel if you spent the rest of your life not quite certain that you weren't giving up your chance at true love? Some might serve up the line that the Bible or God provides that, but that is a cop out. I believe it is wrong and choose to live my life accordingly, but if that kind of certainty was truly available, we would have the massive divisions of faith that are all too evident in the Church.
For some reason many Christians feel that it is of utmost importance to make it clear that homosexuality is a sin (and some, that it is among the worst of sins). Using the new hot word "tolerance", they scare each other into believing that by not making this disclaimer off the hop, they risk becoming "soft on sin", or worse, liberal. Jesus came to live and love among sinners, suffering and dying for them while they were still sinners. How could we do any less? We are called, first and foremost, to love people regardless of their sin. We do not ignore the sin, but neither do we make the first and central point of reference when seek to be the active presence of Christ in the world.
In the end, as "nice" as the dialogue may have seemed, I still choose to remain anonymous. The fact is, many of your reading this know me. Several even read my blog. Some go to church with me. And others will meet me and never know this aspect of my life. Sadly, even in the most well-intentioned of Evangelical communities, admitting even a hint of homosexuality tends to become the defining aspect of how people perceive you. Being the butt of endless jokes and innuendos (largely indirectly, as though that makes it any better), assumed to be a pervert or a child molester, and touted as the political and moral puppet-issue of the left & right alike- and these are just the perks. So, should I have used my real name here?
No. At this stage, I choose to fade into the background. We have come a long way in this dialogue, but not that far. Don't get me wrong. It isn't that I am ashamed or even afraid. I have done nothing wrong and could deal with whatever anyone wants to throw at me. Sticks & stones. No, I remain in the shadows because I can't be bothered to have the same tired conversations again and again. I can't be bothered to be objectified for the purpose of theological or political bantering. I can't be bothered until the tide of the conversation turns and I see this issue dealt with as Christ would- which is all too rare.
Thanks for listening. I'm honoured your thought it worth your time.
Regardless of the theological and political bantering that has occured (and of which I have followed closely), I would like to thank you for your vulnerability here and articulating yourself as well as you have.
If nothing else you have succeeded in opening my mind (with greater clarity) to other viewpoints, opinions, feelings and dialogue that I would have been nonethewiser to had I not read your post.
I''m honoured.
Thank you and Bless you In Christ
ralph // (Comment this)
Thanks. I appreciate your kindness. My hope is that some are challenged.
Peace,
Alex (Comment this)
thanks for your story. Peace to you and the Blessings of the Lord upon you.
JDL (Comment this)
You are to be commended for opening up a dialogue about this issue in the evangelical church. It is both courageous and compassionate on your part. Courageous because you put your story (part of it anyway) in print and compassionate because those like you have hope that the conversation may lead to more grace and less condemnation, more inclusivity and less rejection and more understanding and less ignorance about the difference between homosexual behaviors and homosexual orientation. Most evangelicals are clueless about the massive data about same-sex orientation. Most of them think genitalia right away. That is truly sad. Expecting you to change your orientation is like expecting you to change your left hand (or right hand) orientation. Have hope because there is a growing number of both hetero- and homosexual Christian thinkers willing to explore biblical, theological and practical ways to adress this issue in the context of God''s massive redeeming grace. (Comment this)
Am I characterized by grace so that others broken will join me in my brokeness? I hope more so now.
I appreciate all I''ve picked up in this series, whether I agreed with it all or not. Thanks Jamie for opening this box up. I think what came out needed to be heard, and hopefully will open the way for us to really be more of a true community and presence of Jesus in this world.
Ted (Comment this)
drew. (Comment this)
I agree that these questions need to come out of the box (or the closet, so to speak). It isn''t about compromise or "tolerance" or liberalism. It is about people. Until we deal with our failure to love people first and foremost, even while they are in the midst of their own crap, we are representing a twisted Gospel.
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
I am not sure if it was entirely successful, but Alex and I wanted to not only put a face on the "issue", but a personalize the questions as well. It wasn''t a GLOWING success, but it went better than I had expected.
Thanks.
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
If we spent even half the time trying to truly hear and empathize with those we are trying to "save" that we do trying to prove them wrong and ourselves right, we would not be where we are. I hope this has encouraged some to take steps in this direction.
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
No worries. It was, indeed, in affirmation to your prior comment. Sorry for lacking clarity.
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
Thanks for the discussion. Nice to see it being done without all the name calling and stone throwing. As human beings we so often revert to our primitive instinctual reactions to anything different that threatens to upset our ordered world. And gays do just that - upset what we all think of as "normal" or "ordered."
I would like to see a world where a gay person could invite the person of their choice to the high school prom without fear of repercussion.
Many people cite the promiscuous lifestyle of gay people as one of the reason to hate the practice and call it sin. If they are promiscuous or meeting strangers in gay bars for a brief contact that''s because we put them there. After all, if you can''t have an open relationship, you are bound to have one in secret. If you can''t have an open relationship it''s pretty hard to have a lasting one. Gay people all over the world have been dealing with these problems since time began. We force them into the closet and then blame them for their secretive habits. If they were allowed to be considered "normal" then a lot of these lifestyle problems would not exist. If they were treated as the normal people they really are they probably wouldn''t feel the need to flaunt their sexuality in an annual gay parade.
God created all of us to live in our physical world governed by the laws of physics. Sometimes something upsets our applecart and we have to deal with the results. Could it be that a simple chemical imbalance in the womb makes or breaks who we are? Food for thought....
Thanks again and no offense intended to anybody.
Marty (Comment this)
I appreciate your seeing the bigger picture. Our treatment of homosexuals certainly has contributed to the secret nature of the subculture, thus often contributing to the promiscuity. However, I would also say that, while we can make things more difficult, we are not, strictly speaking, causal. Interesting points. Thanks!
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
Thanks for the encouragement.
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
Thanks for stopping by the blog. I identify with much of what you are sharing. My wife & I had to change churches a few time because they could not affirm my wife's role as the leader of our ministry.
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
i hope and pray that one day we will belong to a church where you are known and loved for all that you are.
peace to you. (Comment this)
I'm sorry that the church community is the way that it is. I feel very honored at your openness and honesty, and i pray that you find yourself surrounded with people that love and care for you.
be blessed
ken (Comment this)
My personal belief is that evangelical churches are just as much perpetrating false and cultish dogma and doctrine, as are the extra-Christian groups out there. It does nobody in the body of Christ any good to lie and stretch/tear/rip/bend Scripture to fit one's personal convictions - which is what the evangelical denominations have done on the subject of homosexuality.
I have ceased to call myself a Christian, since that word has become polluted and corrupt with politics, polemics, and perpetrators of hate and fraud. To my friends, I confess to being a man of spiritual faith - and I leave it at that. (Comment this)
While I agree that many (not all) evangelicals perpetrate problems, I do not think it is fair to say that it is only as a result of "twisting" Scripture to fit their own beliefs. Many believe it as true convictions based on their understanding of Scripture. If they were clear on the issue, there wouldn't be this controversy, but there is ambiguity.
As for the word "Christian", it is too bad that you felt you had to abandon it because of its abuse. Sadly, few words or titles (including "man of spiritual faith") can ever be free of someone abusing them.
I hope you come to see that there are far more Christians who embrace the teachings and life of Christ in more authentic ways.
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
It was asked, is homosexuality sin? To answer this question adequately, we must know what is meant by the word homosexuality. Mark Poole understands it (as do I) as "an affectional, emotional and sexual orientation, or a pre-disposition." I cannot conceive of any pre-disposition, whether instilled by nature or experience, as being in itself sinful, or of its bearer as guilty of sin on account of it. There are of course pre-dispositions to sin, manifestations of our fallenness; the question ought really to be whether homosexual orientation is one of these. Plainly: is the act or (set of acts) to which homosexuality is a pre-disposition a sin?
I do not dispute that the Scriptures and the unbroken teaching of the Church tell us of a particular employment of the sexual powers and call it sinful. However, it is not sin (though it would be scandalous, alas) to form a lifelong loving relationship with another man, perhaps even one intended to approximate the holy and mystical covenant that we call marriage. Now some suggest that the Christian tradition did not and does not contemplate the use of the sexual powers within such a loving and monogamous relationship, and so cannot condemn it. Even if that is the case, all sexual activity outside of such a relationship is left under God's condemnation. And I'm afraid that covers quite a bit for every one of us; Lord have mercy.
FWIW, I receive the traditional teaching that such use of the sexual powers is against God's will and is harmful even to a monogamous relationship. I won't go into much detail as to all my reasons. But let me only say that it is a mistake to accept without careful examination that which is called the modern understanding of human sexuality, especially because we are Christians, called to be like Him by whom the world is judged. Neither let us be hasty in assuming that one's orientation can be changed, or cannot be changed. For my part, I can only offer my desires to Jesus, that I may be crucified with Him through them; for in the Scripture and the sacraments, He says to me and to all of us, "I do not condemn thee; go and sin no more."
In presenting this element of our Faith, it's important to distinguish the loving relationship between two men (which is praiseworthy) and the sexual content of that relationship (which, according to Christian teaching, does that relationship great harm).
Yet one word more. It is an oft repeated idea, that we must hate the sin, but love the sinner. This is perhaps technically true, but it misses the point, and in certain contexts may be false to the spirit of Christ. Rather, let us hate the sin because, and only because, we love the sinner. If we really do not love the sinner (as Christ loves him!), we need not trouble ourselves in hating his sin. And let us hate the sin, not because we do not share the temptation to it, do not understand it, or are physically disgusted by it, but only because it troubles and burdens him for whom Christ died.
Well, one more thing. The author and teacher who has helped me most in my situation is George MacDonald, the nineteenth century Scottish preacher and poet. I myself do not know much about the emergent church movement or conversation, but istm that you allwould find MacDonald's work extremely profitable, especially his sermons. Take, for instance, <a href=http://www.cs.duke.edu/~lipyeow/gm/consumingfire.html>The Consuming Fire</a>.
Thank you all for your earnest words, and for your courage. Brothers, let us pray for one another, that we may be healed. (Comment this)
Thanks for the very thoughtful comments. It gives a lot to think about. Where I might differ is in defining homosexuality. The definition, "an affectional, emotional and sexual orientation, or a pre-disposition." speaks more of the orientation. If I had a persuasive orientation towards stealing cars, but never acted on it, that would not make me a car thief. Again, thanks for your thoughts.
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
30 yrs I struggled with this. A sincere christian, as much as anyone without this tendency. It wasn't a matter of proper repentance and turning from this sin. God works with us all bit by bit. I got to where I could get a handle on this, with God's help. As long as all of us struggle with sinning, we can not make a differentiation between our sin and the sin of homosexual attraction. We can not stop all our sinning today, no matter how sincere our desire and repentance. We all struggle with the split of wanting to see ourselves in the heart of God, but fleeing it too, with various distractions.
(Comment this)
I have a home group from our church that I have been in long enough for deep trust to be built. Even so, I never turned to them to ask for direction on my attraction. I couldn't think of anyone who could give me direction. But when same sex attraction comes up in the group, I will not keep silent. I am them, they are me. (Comment this)