Fighting Injustice: The Weapons of our Warfare
In my previous post, “Missional Dynamics”, I explored the two foundational dynamics of missional living as seen through the Old Testament Prophets (and affirmed by Christ in His “Jesus Creed”): righteousness and justice. In the comment section, George asked an important question:
“How does a ‘missional’ Christian stand against the systems/powers of injustice in the world? What are the weapons of your warfare?”
Two sets of Scripture come immediately to mind with this question- Ephesians 6 and 2 Corinthians 10. Let’s look at some of the specific verses in each chapter:
“Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” (Ephesians 6:10-12, NIV)
And:
“For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.” (2 Corinthians 10:3-6, NIV)
In the Evangelical tradition in which I was raised, these verses would be interpretted to mean that to fight inrighteousness and injustice meant primarily to pray against the “principalities and powers” and live moral lives as an example to the world. It was suggested that, because our enemies are not “flesh and blood”, we should not resist human injustice (for God would judge them in the end). At times it even meant that we must concern ourselves with “spiritual matters” (aka prayer, salvation of souls, etc.) and not the “fleshly matter” (politics, poverty, materialism, etc.).
I believe these well-intentioned interpretations dangerous dilute the Biblical mandate for righteousness and justice. It is built on the false premise of a dualistic view of reality, a gnostic division between the “spiritual” and “fleshly” or natural world. The resulting consequence of this worldview is a Christianity built upon moral righteousness, but neglecting a significant aspect of what the mandate to live justly means.
While the Ephesians 6 reference teaches us to avoid demonizing people, it does excuse us from confront people who cause and/or perpetuate injustice. Jesus clearly refused to back down from His prophetic vocation to publically expose and rebuke the abuses of power that furthered the suffering and exploitation of the poor, the marginalized and the lost. He reflected the prophetic pattern of the Old Testament, yet rooting it in the essential motivation and foundation of love.
The 2 Corinthains 10 reference reminds us that our weapons are not those of the world. We do not use vengence, violence, etc. to achieve justice, but clearly the weapons we do use are not weak, passive or ineffective. So what are the weapons we use to fight injustice? There are many approaches, so let’s look at a few:
1. Opposite Spirit: I believe with great conviction that one of the most powerful weapons against injustice is living lives in the opposite spirit of that which we seek to overcome. In the face of greed, vengence and individualism, if we live generously, with grace and through genuine community we have an impact that is significant.
This is perhaps the most difficult, as it requires that we do not allow ourselves to participate in injustice. It means every aspect of our lives must explore these possibilities. What good is it to stand against the exploitation of the poor workers, then participate and support businesses that perpetuate the very poverty we seek to overcome?
2. Bringing Light: Exposing the darkness of injustice to the light of truth is also very important. This can be done in many ways. Through research and study, we will begin to see the hidden injustices around us, both large and small. As we become more aware, it is our duty to bring that awareness to others, teaching them to alter their lives accordingly. Further, we must speak out publically against these abuses.
While I believe that protest can be one effective way to bring the light, it can also easily get out of control. I also believe that its effectiveness has diminished in the last few decades, where in the past it has accomplished a great deal. It can be attractive to many because of its dramatic nature, but unless you are sure it is effective and can be done appropriately, there are many other approaches that are preferable.
3. Prayer: While I said earlier that we cannot minimize our approach to prayer, I did not want to suggest that it was not an important aspect of our warfare. Rather, I simply did not want us to use this central approach to justify the neglect of our broader call to fight injustice. Prayer and spiritual warfare are essential, not only as we come up against the powers, but also in centering our own intentions and spirits as we enter battle.
The thing to remember, however, is that we should never ask God in prayer for that which we are not willing to be the answer. If you ask God to see injustice stopped, the poor cared for, the marginalized embraced, then you must be not only willing to be that answer, but actively pursue God’s will in the matter. A general rule of thumb is that, unless God says otherwise, our default expectation is that, if we can be, we should be the instrument of God’s purposes.
What other weapons must we use?
So Jamie, where does the Gospel come into all that? Where does the sharing of God’s love and truth come into that?
As an inner city missionary (do I have that right?) dealing with victims of all kinds, and the marginalized and the down and outs, and the addicts, and alcoholics etc, etc, how do you want to reach out to them? Are you more interested in mobilizing to oppose the structures of injustice, or would you focus on the people themselves, bringing God’s love and truth to bear on their lives so they can leave that injustice behind them?
Personally, I’d much rather be involved in making disciples, then getting political. Getting political is not going to bring people to Christ. Sharing the truth about God, (including the part about sin) reaching out with His love, showing them the way to God, that’s where the action is at. That’s what the Holy Spirit uses to penetrate hearts, His truth. The Father is seeking worshipers, who will worship Him in Spirit and in truth Jesus said. He commanded us to go out and make disciples.
I have tasted and seen that the Lord is good. (Psalm 34) He has given me new life, eternal life. There is nothing in this world that can bring more joy then to see someone you have shared the Gospel with come into a relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
Forget politics man, you’ll just keep banging your head against the wall, believing that is going to bring about change. I’d much rather be empowered by Almighty God to reach out to people one by one. I’ve seen how God uses that. What is it that God is looking for? Why do we exist? To bring Him glory. When we reach out with the truth of the Gospel that is what God uses. By His Spirit He uses His Word to penetrate hearts. Ok rant done, how about some of that Word?
Roman 10 13 For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[g]
14 But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? 15 And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That is why the Scriptures say, “How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!”[h](NLT)
As a missionary doesn’t that fire you up?
George
George, George, George…
Just when you ask a great question, you go and change the subject again. Yes, the proclamation of the Gospel is important, but this is not the subject of this post. You asked how we fight injustice and I tried to answer as best I can- not exhaustively, of course. You asked:
“Are you more interested in mobilizing to oppose the structures of injustice, or would you focus on the people themselves, bringing God’s love and truth to bear on their lives so they can leave that injustice behind them?”
This question exposes a common, but dangerous ignorance about the nature of injustice. It is precisely BECAUSE I what to focus on the people that I MUST oppose the systems of injustice.
What most Western Christians fail to see is that the comfort and freedom of the faith comes through governmental, economic, social, etc. systems that thrive at the expense of the poor. Therefore, if I attempt to preach the Good News to the poor without addressing why they are poor (including my culpability in it), the words are empty, mocking God Himself.
You seemed to get caught up on the political aspect of things, though it only represented a tiny fraction of my post. Of course politics alone won’t defeat injustice. However, to say “forget politics” is irresponsible and clearly not Biblical. How can you read Scripture and not see CLEAR mandates for godly governance? Imagine if Christians during the American civil rights movement or the fight against apartheid in South Africa decided to “forget politics”? It would dishonour God and the Gospel He calls us to LIVE as well as preach.
Beyond all this, you still changed the subject. You asked a question about fighting injustice and made it, ONCE AGAIN, about your agenda, about verbal proclamation of the Gospel.
I really don’t know what else to say…
Peace,
Jamie
I don’t either, we are poles apart. Have a good one.
By the way, have you posted on what you believe the Gospel is? Always interested in asking emergents what their belief is about that.
Cheers
George
George,
Why do you say we are polls apart? You DON’T think these are valid, Biblical example of fighting injustice? Or is it just that I refuse to change the subject?
You should know that what I expressed in this post is not an “emergent” perspective on justice. These are commonly held beliefs by most of the Evangelical Christians I connect with who would in no way identify with emerging theology. Don’t use “emergent” as an excuse to dismiss this stuff. It is at the heart of the Gospel. It is God’s heart, so I hope you don’t miss it.
Peace,
Jamie
Jamie, you are not living during the American civil rights movement, nor are you in South Africa. As I understand it, you are a missionary in downtown Winnipeg.
So, in downtown Winnipeg, as a missionary, what is your mission? When it comes to injustice, as you understand it, how do you reach out? What do you do? What kind of injustice is there in downtown Winnipeg? Are all the hurting people in downtown Winnipeg, victims of injustice?
Relate all this stuff you are saying to your own context, I beleive that would be more helpful in understanding you.
Thanks,
George
George,
I am happy to answer your questions in respect to my own context, but in fairness, your original question was not so specific. Again, don’t dismiss what I have written. The fact is that my ministry also has me involved in land-owner exploitation in Thailand and helping recovering “child soldiers” in Uganda, so the examples I shared are not so far outside of my context.
I have chosen to live in the inner city community to which I have been called. We bought an abandoned gang house and made the community our own. In addition to our programs, which include facilitating outreach teams throughout the city and abroad, we seek to build relationships with our neighbours, serving them how we can, sharing the love of Christ in deed and in word. As a “missionary”, sharing the Gospel verbally is a part of what we do. I want to start with that so that you understand it is a given in the rest of what I share.
Injustice in my neighbourhood takes on many forms. As a predominately First Nations neighbourhood (Native Canadians), we are a minority as a white family. Our community is also significantly made up of immigrants from Asia and Africa. Every day we see the impact of systemic cultural racism against these people. Not only is there the impact of historic injustice (we cannot deny the strong lingering impact of the historic treatment of non-white communities), we also deal with current prejudices. In response to this we seek to help bridge the gap between cultures, creating opportunities for mutual understand and relationship. I believe the ministry of reconciliation given by God includes reconciling people with each other in addition to Him.
The educational system is built on worldviews that are primarily Euro-Western, meaning that (again) non-white students are at a severe disadvantage in the learning process. Since they are already crippled by the poverty and systemic dysfunction, this further robs them of an opportunity to overcome their problems. So while we bring them the hope of Christ, we also seek to make His Kingdom manifest by working with local school, teachers, churches, etc. to raise awareness of cross-cultural learning dynamics, etc.
A more recent challenge stems from the agenda of a local institution that wanted a significant portion of property in our neighbourhood. Using PR-politics they managed to acquire the land, subtly displacing people with unethical means, contributing to the housing crisis in our neighbourhood. As most of our neighbours do not know how to stand up for their rights, we are getting involved in raising awareness and advocating for them as well. We believe this is a clearly Biblical mandate for the church (in fact, a very NON-emergent Evangelical Baptist pastor is helping lead the charge).
These are just a few examples. If we came in proclaiming the Gospel, yet showed no interest or spent no energy invested in fighting these injustices, we would prove ourselves hypocrites. We cannot proclaim the love of God, then ignore the real suffering of His children. Neither can we say that God care about their suffering, but that His solutions are not for this world. We are to seek to see His Kingdom come here and now as it is in heaven. Will we ever achieve perfect on earth? Of course not, but we still seek to demonstrate Christ’s love with our lives, giving authority to our words, so that when the Gospel is preached, it speaks to the very heart of the people (including ourselves).
I hope that helps clear things up.
Peace,
Jamie
jamie,
about your post. this post, along with a recent post by smulo has raised some of the same questions i’ve had for a long time now. how far do we go in fighting injustice? as far as to pick up a weapon? do we stand between the innocent and the victimizer and say “you have to go through me!” i struggle with this and wonder what other people think.
brad
Brad,
Perhaps more important is to stand WITH the victim and say “I will share you suffering”. There is some good thoughts on this in Walter Wink’s book “The Powers That Be”. You won’t likely agree with all he write (I know I don’t), but it is well worth the read in respect to the questions you ask. I believe Josh Brown (www.iamjoshbrown.com/blog) reviewed it not too long ago.
Peace,
Jamie
thanks jamie!
Thanks for your thoughts, Jamie. I struggle with this one all the time, and i know i lose more often than i ought. My wife and i discuss justice and the christian life, and usually at the end, she sort of sighs and says “i just wish it were a little easier” and i don’t blame her. What you’re talking about is hard stuff. In the coming months, the native band about a kilometer from our house is going to open a new casino. There’s been talk of how dangerous the neighborhoods around casinos become etc., but i haven’t heard many people complaining of the poverty and ruined lives that will result. it’s sad. but how do we fight? i don’t know. i think education is one way we fight. living as an alternative is certainly effective too. i think our primary response as a church really needs to be sheltering people and aiding in recovery. it’s a ministry i know will be needed, but i’m not even sure how to start!
sorry…no answers, only questions.
blessings,
mike
Mike,
You hit the nail on the head: it is by no means easy. In fact, I think this is one of the roots of why the church has let it slip. If we deny it or ignore it, living for Christ becomes easier (not easy, but easier). Justice is a costly path to follow.
The casino does present a big challenge, but I think you are on the right path. Offering shelter and support WITHOUT judgment is an important and powerful, but costly and draining ministry. Many blessings to you in it. If you ever want to use me as a resource, feel free to email any time.
Peace,
Jamie
Good questions Mike. The primary response of the church is to make disciples. If disciples are made they won’t care about the casino and they sure won’t attend.
I read what you have to say Jamie and it just gets clearer for me what it is we should be doing. We should be showing the way to Jesus Christ, to a relationship with Him.
You said this above: “I believe the ministry of reconciliation given by God includes reconciling people with each other in addition to Him.”
That’s good but where do you want to start? When people get reconciled to God the reconciliation with each other will automatically happen. If it is a real and genuine salvation, the love of Christ will be within them as they then seek to reconcile with others. Not only that, but they will want to bring others into the Kingdom with them, especially families. Think about that when it comes to the Native Canadians
When you see the church of Jesus Christ operating the way He intends for it to operate, it is an amazing thing to be a part of. Nothing in this world compares. That’s because we get to see God at work and get to be a part of that. Saving souls, seeing the lost, found seeing people who were in darkness (in which we all once were) come into His marvelous light.
So your Native situation in Winnipeg I would encourage you to ask God to give you a burden for them that He might use you to bring them to Christ. That has to be your ultimate goal. Remember that truth “He who has the Son has life, he who does not have the Son does not have life and the wrath of God remains upon him.”
I hope that your outreach teams have the ultimate goal of introducing those in need to the Savior of the world, Jesus Christ. That part is being set aside by so many churches and para church organizations in our country. I see that first hand in downtown ministries here in Toronto. Well intentioned people who want to feed and shelter and clothe folks but I’m not seeing many get saved.
So many have lost their first love, Jesus Christ. His name is not exalted because so many fear the response to that. Greater fear of man , than of God. God won’t use that.
But in the middle of all that I know good solid Christians who are just itching to get involved in a work in which God is working in a powerful way. They are in ministries that have turned their focus from a desire to glorify God and really lift high the name of Jesus Christ to nothing more then the social gospel, hoping that also justifies them before God. I think those folks would latch onto a ministry big time that is being used by God and we could set our society upside down with the Gospel.
But God IS at work, bringing serious Christians together that He can use for His glory. Everything that God does is for His glory, if we aren’t interested in that He withdraws.
I hope your ministry there in Winnipeg is all about that and if it is, God bless you.
Cheers
George
Jamie,
Good post on our weaponry and the differing manner in which our warfare is waged. Without defining “powers” along the lines of W.Wink or C.P.Wagner, it’s interesting that the language is the same between say, charismatic camps and social justice proponents. “Opposite spirit” etc is stuff I’ve heard from both, though sometimes infused with different meaning of course!
What I’m curious about though – noting that this post is applicable from evangelical charismatic through social justice (some say “liberal”) Christians – is what makes it specifically “missional”. I would say that the weapons we use (as described) in the quest for justice (from yesterday) are fundamentally Christian and rooted in the Gospel, not in any particular expression such as missional or megachurch or evangelical or liberal or any other qualifiers. Yes, it’s important to missional expressions but no moreso than to any other, so limiting the application limits the widespread import of the post. i.e., the approaches aren’t distictively missional in that others should and do share them. otoh, writing only to a missional audience, Q: “How does a ‘missional’ Christian stand against the systems/powers of injustice in the world? What are the weapons of your warfare?” A: The same as any other Christian… two passages (etc). Just a thought.
btw, I like the balance you strike in “bringing light.” Lots that could be developed there, but the applications are very situation-specific, aren’t they?
george,
i wonder if you are reading the same posts that i’m reading. i wonder if you are blinded a bit by an agenda to ‘straighten’ jamie out or if you’re just picking arguments for argument sake.
what i’ve recognized from jamie’s blog is that he is…
1. committed to sharing the love of christ, the person of christ, with people verbally and in action.
2. he is incarnationally living the misseo dei.
you quoted him…”I believe the ministry of reconciliation given by God includes reconciling people with each other in addition to Him.”…
and then seemingly disagree with your ownself in order to agree with this quote.
i don’t doubt the sincerity of your walk and i am not criticizing you. i am pointing out what i seem to be seeing again and again.
brad
Thanks Jamie, and George, for your thoughts.
George, without trying to sound like i’m picking your comment apart (because i’m certainly not), i worry that in what you’re saying, there’s too much of a disconnect between what is traditionally called social action and evangelism. It’s the chicken and the egg question with regard to the starving in africa or the homeless in america…can we evangelize first, or should we help and then preach?
In the scripture, i don’t see that separation. I see Jesus meeting physical needs and spiritual needs (if you differentiate) equally…food for everyone, challenging social structures in his teachings, and preaching the good news about freedom from oppression and the kingdom of God. Sometimes i think we forget that social justice was and is a huge concern for God. Amos shows that most strongly in my mind, with his scathing attacks on social structures that contribute to injustice. Should we make disciples? Absolutely. I’m in full agreement. But i think the KIND of disciples we’re making is important too. Are we making disciples that, as Yoder puts it, replace dominion with servanthood, and hostility with forgiveness? Are our disciple-making programs producing the kind of people who have God’s care for the poor?
Of course George, this is no personal attack on you at all. It’s more of a personal journey for me in trying to figure out how we can minister the gospel to this generation.
thanks all for the helpful thoughts.
mike
George,
With respect, I think you have some very idealistic and perhaps naive views of God’s transformation in peoples lives. While it is done through the power of the Spirit by no merit of our own, it is worked out with fear and trembling. Therefore it is not entirely true or realistic when you say:
“When people get reconciled to God the reconciliation with each other will automatically happen.”
Again, you clearly have only one topic you want to talk about. Fair enough, but please respect what we discussed earlier.
Peace,
Jamie
Brother Maynard,
The problem with this post is that so much is caught up with the previous one. I do see a connection between missionality and justice (but that is another post altogether), but as I mentioned to George in a previous comment, these things aren’t simply “missional” expressions, but much broader. I agree I should have mentioned it in the body of the post, but alas!
Peace,
Jamie
Jamie, with respect, I have seen the transformational work of God in peoples lives. For starters,I am one of them. 43 years with out Christ, now these past 6 years with Christ. I was raised in a Christian environment, I knew about God but didn’t know God. I now know God and desire to make Him known.
As it sounds like your is, my heart is for the inner city. I have seen God at work in the inner city, in a powerful way, its not idealistic, its reality. Not much in downtown Toronto, however.
The bottom line is all your social action, and justice concerns should come down to wanting to help people see the way to Jesus Christ.
Here is my question to you and to so many others in this emerging/missional “conversation.”
What is it that you treasure most in your life? You are a Christian missionary. I will asume that you have a personal saving relationship with Jesus Christ, that you know that you know that you know. You know without a doubt that you are a child of God and will spend eternity with Him. If your life ended tonight you have that assurance. I don’t know you, so I will assume that.
That in itself should just drive you to want to share the truth that you have in your life with others and especially those who are so lost, so hurting, so helpless. Jesus Christ can lift them up, He can show them the way, He can give them new life, like I’m assuming He has given you. But how does He do that? How does His message of reconciliation go forth. Through people like you and me. Please tell me that is your number one desire, to see people come into a saving relationship with Jesus Christ. We can discuss how it is that can happen, but if that is not your number one desire then we don’t need to continue this discussion because then you and I are not on the same page when it comes to our faith. By the way, if you want to check out an awesome work of God in an inner city check out the Brookly Tabernacle. Check out Jim Cymbala’s book Fresh Wind Fresh Fire that documents an incredible work of God. The BT choir is grammy award winning and is made up of mostly former drug addicts, alcoholics, prostitutes, down and outs, transvestities, etc,etc. All of them redeemed by Almighty God as he used a bunch of people who were totally sold out for Him and are not ashamed of the Gospel. Our problem here in Canada is that too many of us are ashamed of the Gospel, we lack boldness. I’m guilty of that, but I sure do want to change and tell people the truth, the whole truth and nothing but.
Thanks
George
That should be Brooklyn Tabernacle
George,
You seem determined to ignore anything I say that doesn’t line up with what you want to say. I have clearly and on many occasions stated that I believe it is centrally important for people to come into saving relationship with God through Jesus Christ. I acknowledge the importance of verbal proclamation. I am not suggesting you diminish its importance in any way, but rather seeing it within the larger, fuller, more Biblical presentation of Truth.
Can people have overnight transformations through the power of the Holy Spirit? Of course! Is it the norm for all who come to Christ? I don’t believe so. Following Christ means taking up our cross daily. Your suggestion that people become saved and simply no longer desire to gamble is not realistic, in my opinion.
The fact remains, George, that you have shown consistent disrespect to me in that you continually bring every post you comment on back to YOUR agenda about the one topic you deem important. I have offered to dialogue with you via email, asking you to respect the guidelines I clearly and patiently explained to you. But rather than give me that small courtesy, you not only change the subject, but fail to acknowledge the multiple times I agree with you, affirming the things you find important.
I am not asking you to stop comment here. However, I will no longer respond to any comment that seeks to change the subject or fails to respect those reading here. I am not challenging you because I want to prove myself right, but rather because I see you to be a passionate, loving Christian who is missing so much of what God has for you and for the world through you. I hope you will give it some prayer and thought.
Peace,
Jamie
” I am not challenging you because I want to prove myself right, but rather because I see you to be a passionate, loving Christian who is missing so much of what God has for you and for the world through you.”
What is it Jamie that I am missing?
Its interesting, bring the discussion back to what really matters in life and you are not willing to answer the questions. I don’t get that part, but its also very consistent with so many in the emerging/missional “conversation”
“Your suggestion that people become saved and simply no longer desire to gamble is not realistic, in my opinion.”
Don’t think that’s quite what I said Jamie. I will say this though, a person who has a problem with gambling who gets saved, even after he is saved he will no doubt still have the desire to gamble. But he will also know how sinful it is and how destructive and as he continues to grow in his relationship with Christ and with the encouragement that he is going to receive as he becomes part of a body of believers, he is going to overcome.
That’s what God will work out in His life, as he cooperates with God in this new fantastic awesome relationship he now has going with God.
I can relate to that. I didn’t have a problem with gambling, my problem was lust. So after I got saved where do you think the enemy tried to come after me most? In the area of lust. But you know what, I am overcoming all because of Christ in me. I got to do my part though. I have to surrender it to Him. God is so faithful as we strive to live for His glory and deal with our sin. It is a process for sure but we should be able to see that growth into Christ likeness as we continue along. If we aren’t seeing it we need to ask why not. The problem won’t be with God it will be with us.
“I acknowledge the importance of verbal proclamation. I am not suggesting you diminish its importance in any way, but rather seeing it within the larger, fuller, more Biblical presentation of Truth.”
What does that mean?
Also can you answer this question I asked you above:
“What is it that you treasure most in your life?”
Can I assume that it is your salvation?
If so, what would be more important to you, helping people come to know your Savior that they too can receive salvation, or fighting against societal structures that have contributed to injustice?
Cheers
George
George,
If I misunderstood you I apologize. However, I stand by what I said earlier: you seem to refuse to acknowledge what I have clearly stated. Fine, your call.
You asked what I meant by my statement about a fuller expression of the Gospel when I repeatedly explained what I meant.
You asked:
“…what would be more important to you, helping people come to know your Savior that they too can receive salvation, or fighting against societal structures that have contributed to injustice?”
Why should it be a choice? Why is one measured against the other? They are inseparably connected, especially if you recognize that “societal” structures are often expressions of principalities and powers.
If you hear anything I say, George, please hear this: everything I have stated in the last two posts and the comments that followed are NOT expressions of my missional/emerging theology. This is Biblical, Evangelical Christianity. Similar articles have been posted in many conservative Christian magazines and websites and books. It is too easy for you to dismiss this with that excuse.
As to the questions you claim I will not answer. If you want to email me privately, I will answer as best I can. But seeing as you refuse to acknowledge what I have said, refuse to respect the boundaries I kindly suggested, I cannot help but feel that your questions are not asked out of genuine curiosity, but rather primarily to “catch” me in my answer. Those kinds of questions do not deserve an answer. I may be wrong, but I feel confident that I am not.
Peace,
Jamie
George,
Below are some quotes from Jamie from the last couple of posts…
FROM THIS POST
“Yes, the proclamation of the Gospel is important,”
“if I attempt to preach the Good News to the poor without addressing why they are poor (including my culpability in it), the words are empty, mocking God Himself.” Again, commitment to preaching the Gospel and LIVING it.
“we seek to build relationships with our neighbours, serving them how we can, sharing the love of Christ in deed and in word.” Again affirming preaching of the Gospel propositionally.
“So while we bring them the hope of Christ,” once again.
“I have clearly and on many occasions stated that I believe it is centrally important for people to come into saving relationship with God through Jesus Christ. I acknowledge the importance of verbal proclamation.” Never more clearly than this does Jamie acknowledge the importance of preaching the Gospel.
FROM PREVIOUS POST (Missional Dynamics Righteousness and Justice)
“However, the majority of emerging-missional types see proclamation of the Gospel central,”
George, I just don’t understand how you can miss these obvious statements that Jamie is making for the importance of verbally sharing the message of Jesus Christ.
So if you missed them before, I have pulled them out of this thread and highlighted them for you. After each response of Jamie’s (which include these statements highlighted) you accuse him of not preaching the Gospel verbally. You must see now that that is a false accusation.
I tire of reading your responses only because you don’t listen to the responses given by Jamie and others here. Please respect everyone by listening to what is being said.
Please unplug your ears (or in this case, uncover your eyes when you read). Otherwise we have no alternative but to assume you either don’t care about us…or you have an agenda other than conversing with us… or your rude.
Again, this is not an attack at you, but an observation of this thread.
My goal isn’t to argue for Jamie, my purpose in sharing this is so that you can see the obvious.
Brad Grinnen
No problem guys, thanks for the discussion. Jamie, I guess some of my questions come from a perception that I have from looking around the blog, the kind of things you have posted on and your connection to things emerging. There’s no doubt about that.
I don’t want to be rude so if I have been, I’m sorry.
I have appreciated asking emergents some questions over the last couple of years on their blogs. I believe I have a fairly clear picture of what the conversation is all about.
Maybe what I need to do is determine right off the bat if we share the same starting point. I see now how that is important regardless of what the issue is.
That’s what I was trying to do here, and if that’s a problem, I’ll apologize again and I am out of here.
Thanks for your time,
Seek the Lord,
George
George,
I have no problem identifying with a great deal of the emerging church conversation, more so with the missional movement (and there is a distinct difference). I would caution you that there is no cohesive, unified expression of the emerging church, so to reject the whole thing is dangerous, as it is incredibly diverse. There are those within the ECM that don’t want to identify with each other, so it isn’t a unified belief system by any means nor is meant to be.
I can’t say what is in your head or heart, but from your questions and comments at this blog, I believe you are far from a clear picture of what the emerging church is, but that’s ok.
It’s not a problem to try and determine if we share a starting point- that was never the problem. Rather it is that you feel that any blog post is fair game to discuss anything you are interested in without respect to the topic at hand. I don’t think this is done out of a bad heart, but rather out of a lack of knowledge on blog etiquette. That is easily forgiven if you are willing to learn and respect it.
You have inspired me to write a post about what salvation means to me, so keep your eyes open.
Peace,
Jamie
Ok, I’ll look forward to that. By the way, I see the good guys at Pyromaniacs linked to you. Ya got to love those posters.
Cheers
George
George,
Yes, the Pyro guys have some very creative posters. Unfortunately, they linked to me because of a typo and some lack of clarity, but they still feel it is a fair critique. Oh well…
Peace,
Jamie
Wow, almost forgot what the post was about…..
Jamie, I like the opposite spirit – living the character of Jesus:
- non violence instead of violence
- mercy instead of revenge
- love instead of hate
- others centred instead of self centred
- grace instead of greed etc etc
Surely as we live this out, the life of Jesus becomes clear. A new life, a restored life, in His kingdom. And that ends up, ironically, as attractional as well as missional.
Duncan,
Very true. Thanks!
Peace,
Jamie