Youth & Spiritual Formation - Part 2
The conversation that has grown in the comment section of my last post "Spiritual Formation, Education & Youth" has been excellent. So much so, that I thought I would push in a little further. Before we do so, however, I want to clarify some things I was a little unclear on in the last post. While I used the level of education required in respect to the difference between pastors and youth/child ministers, I did so to reflect on the implicit value system/biases that the imbalance reveals.
I was not saying that youth pastors, for example, should be required the same level of education as pastors. In fact, I think there are people who are called and practicing a pastoral gifting with very little formal education, often doing it better than some seminary grads. Obviously, as a YWAMer, I deeply believe in the power of informal and non-formal spiritual formation and education. That being said, I believe that youth ministers should pursue (in whatever form) a great depth of theological and missional training.
From the comment section of the last post, it is clear that most of us believe that this imbalance is unhealthy and needs to be corrected. The question is this: How do we do this? I know that the issue is more complex than simply saying it is wrong and needs to be made right. There are good reasons for the differences, but I think we can agree those positive aspect do not need to be lost with the change we seek to make.
Therefore, the question I would like to discuss with you here is what this might look like. Both in the context of local church expressions and in our Christian education and so called "para-church" organizations, what might we do to systemically shift towards a more balanced and holistic approach? Be creative. Share ideas and/or things you've seen or tried. I think we have a lot to learn from each other.
i love this post. i am a youth pastor. i have been at this church (started as a church plant) for 6 years and intend on being here for a long, long time. i will not leave this community to finish 3 semesters needed for my MDIV.
i am not sure how or if i will finish my formal education. but i am really feeling that i don't need to finish my formal education. i have a great desire to learn and grow.
right now, blogging is the closest i have. the links, resources, articles, commentaries, discussion have become and incredible source of education for me. at some point i will blog in great detail about this. but so far i'm loving it.
brad (Comment this)
I am so glad that you are so confident in your calling and that you are seeking spiritual formation despite the limits that that might bring. Beyond some YWAM training, I have no more than a high school diploma, but have disciplined myself to years of personal study and practice. Entering the blogosphere was enormously beneficial in that process. Thanks for sharing your encouraging words!
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
Last night I attended my church's "family meeting". One of the questions posed was, "which pastors have degrees and which don't". (I found this interesting considering the post and discussion from yesterday). This question made me sad. To ask it, the person must have been thinking of specific people, and if they're focusing on whether or not they have a degree, they are completely missing the beauty of how God has wired those people and how He is working through them to enrich the body.
The family meeting aside, my church is very passionate about developing and growing leaders (pastors, missionaries, church planters). We also have a program for developing each of these people, and as we learned last night...our program is growing.
The leadership of my church feel that it's more important to help people establish balance than it is to just send future leaders off to seminary. During the "training" phase there is an emphasis on the development of 3 core areas: the head (which would be classes, self study, maybe seminary), the heart (your soul, your sin, your personal life with God, etc) and the Hands (practical outworking of your gifting, your ministry, being with people). At the beginning of this training each person does a self assessment where they rate and discuss where they are currently in different areas that fall under each of the 3 core elements. You then meet with a pastor on a regular basis and begin addressing those areas, all the while recieving feedback from those who are mentoring, or working with you. You continue with what you're strong in, and step out to develop the areas where you are weak. You develop the head, hands and heart all while remaining active in the local church...the ultimate goal is then to be sent out to your respective church plant, country, or assignment prepared theologically, relationally, and, on a personal level, spiritually healthy.
What they're doing isn't going to change the bias that is out there (I'm sure the question of education will be asked again at some point)...but it's certainly helping emerging leaders to recognize that there's more to being a leader than MDiv degrees. Whether you're a Pastor, missionary, or youth pastor, finding and maintaining balance is essential if you are to maintain personal spiritual health while also working to develop and grow the spiritual health of those you feel called to serve. (Comment this)
Thanks for the shout out. Great point on accessibility at your blog. I'll head over and drop a few thoughts.
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
Great thoughts. The commitment to Head & Heart & Hands is a core of our ministry here as well, so I am encouraged to see that others are pursuing it too. Great contribution, thanks!
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
... but the Bible says that we are transformed by the re-newing of our mind, and that we are serve him with body, mind, spirit, soul, strength.
Our current clergy/Christian education system simply does not facilitate the full-extent of God's plan for the church. Arguing this point can be difficult because it's true that wherever Christ's name is spoken, there IS some fruit... but it's not the shadow healing the sick kinda fruit that we see.
My wife and I were missionaries in Ghana for 7 months in 2000. We spoke with people DAILY who spoke of seeing the dead raised (casually I might add) like we would go out to Swiss Chalet after Sunday service and talk about how good worship was. It was casual because it happened often... AND THESE WERE ORDINARY UNEDUCATED MEN, who simply heard what God's word said... and did it.
That's what the disciples did. They saw... they did... and the people were amazed... and many put their trust in God.
(Comment this)
Exciting stuff. Thanks!
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
I am not dismissing education and knowledge, but I wonder if the "life" part of discipleship is missing. Jesus spent 3 years of his life with the disciples. What would it look like (is it even possible in our culture of the individual?) to follow and learn from pastors or other leaders (youth or otherwise) in their daily lives - eating dinner at their houses, going with them as they serve their communities, spending time with them in rush-hour traffic, studying the Bible with them, etc? How would this change our understanding of the roles and responsibilities of leaders? What if pastors/leaders weren't there to have all of the answers and make decisions but to show us how to live?
These are just some rambling thoughts, and I don't really know the practical application of them. I hope it makes sense. (Comment this)
I think you are right. I wonder how much gnosticism influenced this imbalance. NOT that knowledge is bad, but again the emphasis seems dangerously off to me.
You posed some amazing questions, all of which deserve some attention. Feel free to try to answer them if you would like to share you perspective in more detail.
Thanks!
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
One verse that comes to mind is 1Timothy 3:1-3 "This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;"
When was the last time that a church posted a job opening like this? To generalize, I think we have unintentionally glorified education and position (the more educated and higher in position you are in a church, the holier and closer to God you must be) over character and the fruit of one's life (not to say that education and character/fruit are mutually exclusive). To restate from my previous comment, I'm not dismissing education and knowledge, but I think study should be a part of and the responsibility of every believer (not just for those headed for church leadership) and character and fruit are just as important, if not more, than what degree one has.
I don't know how this would translate into the current church system. It probably has to do more with the heart attitudes of people than it does with the structure itself.
As for my thoughts on being a part of the lives of the leaders, I say this for both the leaders and the people who are following. Some friends of mine pastor a church. They have said that it is very difficult to have close friends in the church because of the clergy/laity separation. They are surrounded by people and are still lonely. What if the requirements for the pastors to know everything, be the keepers of the vision, counsel everyone, make the big decisions, etc. were removed so that they could build genuine relationships with people and lead by example?
I hope this wasn't too long. I'm still trying to articulate my thoughts. I'm not married to my opinions and would like to hear the thoughts of others.
Thanks for letting me empty my thoughts on your site. (Comment this)
I just read a post titled Knowledge and Christian Living at http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/ (sorry, I don't know how to make it a link yet). Thoughts? (Comment this)
Not at all too long. Great thoughts and thanks for the link.
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
I almost wonder if even the "lead by example" is placing too much emphasis on the Pastor and I wonder if it will only continue that clergy/laity separation that you mention. I've heard that even in discipleship groups...the person leading is often raised up and separated (much as pastors are) within the group. When the discipleship groups end, the others who were part of these "genuine relationships" never went on to lead their own group because they could not be like the one who led. I think that it's almost natural to set apart those we are looking up to...whether as a "pastoral leader" or one who should be leading by example...as a result those "leaders" (whether actual pastors or lay pastors/leaders) will often find themselves in that tension of loneliness. I would even postulate that Jesus himself felt that tension during the 3 years that he spent on earth...walking with disciples.
I like your thoughts because they resonate with ideas that I struggle with continually as someone who wants to go into ministry. (Comment this)
I believe pretty strongly that until we overcome this ungodly sense of competition and wrestling for status and position we're going to continually find ourselves ill-equipped to deal with life as Christians. I believe that Jesus' prayer for unity came from his divine realization that God is communal and without the benefit of a community approach we will have a difficult time reflecting him to this world. (Comment this)
I agree that Jesus probably did feel the loneliness of His calling, but I also seem to see a pattern of relationships that helped sustain him. I think people in leadership positions need to be intentional about having safe, mutual relationships. I also think that have such a singular leadership model, with the pastor(s) at the top is both too hierarchical and to imbalanced. I have seen groups with no assigned "leader" or pastor function as completely healthy communities. It takes work, but it is doable.
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
I agree that competition has been a negative influence. I also wonder if the solution is reimagining both the way we are church and the way we offer spiritual formation. Great thoughts.
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
Indeed, how would we all feel under such scrutiny? Perhaps that is something we should all consider.
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)
I'm sorry I haven't responded to your comment yet. I appreciate your questions and thoughts, and you have given me some things to think about as I try to articulate my thoughts. I have been ill for the last few days, so for now, I'll defer to Jamie's response. My head is still a little foggy, so I probably won't make much sense if I try to say much. Perhaps next time. (Comment this)
I agree. While I believe that it is natural and healthy to have times of age segregated spiritual formation, I think by separating the generations too much, both suffer as a result. Your idea sounds promising, though I would suggest defining with a less "us/them" name. Even though you say "with" youth, as they seem to be the subject, it could unintentionally create a sense of us/them or even "us over them", which I know is not your intention. Just some thoughts.
Peace,
Jamie (Comment this)